Posts by Half banana

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

Half banana

Venus, I agree with some of your reasoning but not the premises on which they stand.

Jesus was never misquoted; all sayings attributed to him were written by later writers. No one ever took down and wrote verbatim and no one had the ability to memorise his words fifty years or more later and then write them down.

It was more like writing a contrived documentary about a hero who never lived but fabricating the the stories (borrowed from earlier god-man heroes such as Mithra, Dionysus, Orpheus etc.) to create an enticing religious narrative for the temple cults in the first and second centuries.

It is tiresome and unpopular to say it but here is a case where the world really has been well and truly duped in the fictional person of Jesus. The reason for his durability is to be found in Roman politics.

The god-man saviour was a mythical archetype known to all the ancients. By Imperial decree under Constantine the "Catholic" Jesus myth was sold to Greeks, Jews and all comers, the new fusion religion shored up support for the Roman empire by making a catholic i.e. an all embracing or universal church culled from the disparate cults in the third and early fourth centuries. This was part of the standard method of Roman power practice to conquer and control peoples by absorption of their cultures plus the prized gift of high status privilege of Roman citizenship.

Jesus was a cut and paste version of a traditional superman.

45

Will the Watchtower Company in the near future start asking for a tithe?

by Sour Grapes in

it appears that the borg has some financial issues and i would think they are related to the hush money being paid out for the child molestation lawsuits to protect the guilty cult members and the fine untarnished reputation of the jdubs.. we have seen how much the borg refers to the hebrew scriptures for their guiding principles whenever it suits the borg's needs.

tithing certainly is laced throughout the old testament.

under the mosaic law, there were three tithes.

Half banana

If the JW org began to tithe it would be the worst value-for-money religion going.

The Seventh Day Adventists and the Mormons do tithe but the social benefits gained in return are exemplary, if you could stand being stuck inside such belief systems.

The point is that these religions actually organise care for the welfare of their flocks and provide them with social insurances, clubs, lectures, sports and entertainments. Part of the deal is that there is a whole life-style arranged for members outside of the religious meetings, something the JW mentality could not cope with.

Tithing on top of present JW demands for money, ostensibly "for the worldwide preaching work," would be the last straw even for loyal sheep.

Prov 30;16 New International Version (slightly edited!) says:

the grave, the barren womb, land, which is never satisfied with water, the Watchtower finance department and fire, which never says, 'Enough!'

27

Do You Think a Schism is in the Future?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this over the weekend.

just this week, there was the "consolidation" talk (in my wife's congregation) , the article about shunning that went viral, and the annual "show your love and obedience to jehovah by giving us your money" watchtower.

i know my wife said people are running scared about this consolidation even though it was sold as maximizing space to help other areas, build kh in other countries, etc...... the media and government has hit them hard in many countries, but they have gotten off easy in the usa, where the majority of the people and money reside.

Half banana

Quotes from Hanged man's WWCG video;

"It can't be fixed, it has to be demolished".

"Armstrong was a false prophet" . . . is the JW org any different?

The message from this cult from the believers point of view was that ending the cult brought them to Christ. Out of one baseless delusion and straight into another! If a schism happened to the JW sect (and it is a natural occurrence in all societal groupings) at least it would presumably give people back their independence, personal worth and liberty including the end of shunning.

27

Do You Think a Schism is in the Future?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this over the weekend.

just this week, there was the "consolidation" talk (in my wife's congregation) , the article about shunning that went viral, and the annual "show your love and obedience to jehovah by giving us your money" watchtower.

i know my wife said people are running scared about this consolidation even though it was sold as maximizing space to help other areas, build kh in other countries, etc...... the media and government has hit them hard in many countries, but they have gotten off easy in the usa, where the majority of the people and money reside.

Half banana

On the matter of schism of course it has already happened and there is a long history of fragmentation and many JW offshoots exist especially in Nigeria and Eastern Europe but these are studiously hidden from current JWs.

A funding crisis could lead to measures which would demand an adjustment too far even for the stalwarts. Groups of the disaffected who deny the authority of the present GB and 1914 could form but still broadly hold on to traditional JW doctrines. Such as Biblical supremacy and salvation, paradise etc.

Here though is the real world example of a cult winding down, note the pressure of cognitive dissonance and the moderating of cult beliefs towards the mainstream:

"In the mid-1930s Herbert W. Armstrong, an unsuccessful American advertising executive, founded a millennialist Sabbatarian Christian sect with a heterodox theology. Over the next half century, despite a number of setbacks, scandals, criticisms, and attacks from former members and anti-cultists, Armstrong's organization, the Worldwide Church of God, grew to around 100,000 baptized members with a world circulation of over six million for its flagship monthly magazine Plain Truth. In January 1986, Armstrong died. His successor changed most of the church's distinctive doctrines, leading it towards an increasing convergence with mainstream Evangelical Christianity. This created a massive cognitive dissonance in ministers and members: should they accept or reject the authority of the church leadership which had abandoned the authority of the founder's teachings? Groups of ministers left the religion to form new churches, taking tens of thousands of members with them. These schismatic churches in turn faced continuing schism, resulting in over 400 offshoot churches within little more than a decade."

(From Amazon blurb for The fragmentation of a sect, David Barrett)

27

Do You Think a Schism is in the Future?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this over the weekend.

just this week, there was the "consolidation" talk (in my wife's congregation) , the article about shunning that went viral, and the annual "show your love and obedience to jehovah by giving us your money" watchtower.

i know my wife said people are running scared about this consolidation even though it was sold as maximizing space to help other areas, build kh in other countries, etc...... the media and government has hit them hard in many countries, but they have gotten off easy in the usa, where the majority of the people and money reside.

Half banana

Agreed Vidiot, you could see the decline happening five or six years ago and hoped that it would continue-- and it has. The western world has had enough of the JW cult.

The doomsday nature of the Watchtower cult must increasingly be obvious to all so that the appeal is diminishing in a more secular and educated world.

The fact that HQ is now harvesting its assets to continue to function day to day will eventually leave the organisation having sold off the family silver, namely the kingdom halls (which they stole from the congregations starting in 1986).They reversed the principle of a mortgage which is finite and imposed a perpetual fee from the congregations to the amount of the mortgage. A cunning plan which only a cult could carry off. Bad for them, other funds no longer roll in like they used to when the "1914 generation" illusion applied.

Even the rank and file JWs no longer put their money into their religion like they used to.

JW org is a business, an unscrupulous racket promising immortality. Nobody lives after they die, it is a fundamental principle of life. Only fools believe this and we were among them once.

The only Christian thing for JW HQ to do is to admit they are completely wrong and self serving and that they have pummelled their flock into mental slavery. They must admit they made up doctrines to suit their elaborate confidence trick and then they should sell everything, all their property and return the money to those who have supported them in the past.

Say $10 billion would give 8 million individuals around $12,500 each and it can be adjusted according to length of time as a JW.

Highly unlikely but it would be an honourable end to a dishonourable organisation.

39

Sunday's Watchtower Study March 18... Another Money Appeal

by BluesBrother in

january 2018 issue "why give to the one who has everything?

an unashamed contribution appeal... this one with the most manipulative language i can imagine... it may have been commented on before, but i am going to anyway.. p5 quote.

"would you not agree that jehovah is worthy of all the glory and honor that we can give him by offering the best that we have?

Half banana

Jehovah is worthy of all the glory and honor that we can give him by offering the best that we have?

The implication from the WT here is that the best that JWs have is their money!

"Religion (truly is) is a snare and a racket".

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

Half banana

Repeating assumptions is not a good idea. Where is this plenty of proof and documentary evidence Scratchme?

39

Clearly, undeniably, without doubt ... is there a term for introducing a thought in such a way.

by jwfacts in

watchtower article often introduce a point that has no merit with words such a "undeniably.".

for instance the watchtower 2014 august 15 page 10 says:.

"jehovah undeniably blesses the preaching work of christian women and supports them in times of trial.

Half banana

I would like to contextualise this habit of the WT in their use of false or non-existing evidence. The Watchtower has always been cult propaganda from the start exemplified in the underhand way they use language as a massage to their followers’ vanity or sense of religious privilege.

The WT implies that the listeners are the “thinking persons” or “honest hearted ones”. The foremost expression the WT uses in this context to patronise the sheep by getting them to identify as one of “Jehovah’s people”. As if this grandiose fiction were a reality. Equally bad, they promote the idea from the Bible no less, that God has an organisation precisely like their organisation!

All these false assumptions are the coercive language of demagogy which avoids a critical examination of what is being taught but appeals to the desires of the audience.

In a cult Like Jehovah’s Witnesses, this is reinforced by the followers coerced into absolute trust in the leadership on the absurd basis of their divine inspiration. Lastly the information which operates in the JW org is disseminated an atmosphere of unquestioning acceptance—should you dare criticise the org, you will find yourself out on your ear.

Language is a very persuasive tool in cult manipulation. Watchtower language never teaches or explains anything useful, it is just crafted to induce submission to its bogus authority.

15

Deceased circuit over seers

by Warren Wilson in

jw
friends

does anyone remember.

alex docherty.

albert broad.

Half banana

Yes I remember Albert Broad who said from the circuit assembly platform to the seated drones late in 1974 "If Armageddon doesn't come by the end of 1975 then Jehovah's Witnesses will look like the biggest idiots in history " or words to that effect.

17

Today's WT Paragraph 4

by Slidin Fast in

i thought that this little gem deserved a thread of it's own.. 4. why is it important for us to be present at the memorial if at all possible?.

4 reflect on the importance of attending the memorial.

remember, congregation meetings are part of our worship.

Half banana

Attendance at the JW memorial benefits no one except boosting the pride of the governing body and their hapless followers.

The objective seems to be to get as many people who can't think for themselves along to one specific meeting. It's a pointless exercise except to be able to brag. Why would anyone else be impressed with the numbers attending? JWs never miss an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.

Why is it wrong? Because the memorial is just another superstition with its roots in folk belief. In fact the "last supper" was borrowed directly from Mithraism from the sacrificial death of the saviour Mithra who was commemorated once a year at the spring equinox by the use of symbolic cakes and wine. And (dare I mention it again) that Mithraism found spiritual strength in the memorial story because human sacrifice was the most potent tribal magic available.

By the time of the Roman empire, they had forbidden literal human sacrifice so religious rituals continued the sentiments of the sacrifice in symbol only, and this was what Christianity borrowed from Mithraism for its own use. Jesus' death was just a cut and paste job. Bamboozle the gullible with 'holy' superstitions and it's only the priesthood (read JW governing body) who truly benefit.